paul krugman reiterated that deficits are actually not bad, especially when you're in a recessionary environment and that we've actually cut a lot out of the spending. but my concern in all this, while $2.4 trillion is a lot of money to cut over ten years, i'm still concerned about the absolute amount of the debt outstanding which is $16.4 trillion because we've been getting a big break in recent years because the fed has kept interest rates so low. when those interest rates start ticking up, as they would when they end their quaun at this taf easing program and as they would if we don't get the debt ceiling raised, then that cost of interest expense is going to go through the roof. we could be spending as much as $500 billion a year on interest expense alone and that is not a good thing. >> all right. nbc's luke russert and bill cohen -- william cohen, sorry. thank you so much for joining me. >>> next, we'll go to the bous for all of the last-minute detai details. for you... ♪white house for all of the last-minute details. inging the heartburn blues. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. c